Bunchberry & Fern

So what does it mean if I completely lost interest...

2011-06-08T22:23:15.206+01:00

So what does it mean if I completely lost interest in the youtube video and was annoyed by the man's voice? Does that mean I just don't want to learn? Visually or Auditorially :)...For a fella that doesn't believe in learning styles why did he use almost all images to convey his point? Just sayin'

Hi Jerrid, thanks for the comment. I'm not sa...

2010-11-24T17:28:07.100Z

Hi Jerrid, thanks for the comment.

I'm not saying Psychology isn't important at all. Just not the most important consideration when you're designing workplace learning interventions. The forces working 'against' the learner are simply too strong. You can make your training as brain-friendly and as theoretically-sound as you like, but you can't compete with a dysfunctional work environment and a crappy manager (and vice versa).

I'm curious about the strong knowledge base. (I'm aware how this might come across in a blog comments thread so let me be specific - the genuine type of curiosity as opposed to the snarky 'give it your best shot, big boy' type of faux-curiosity.) To my mind, we have been repeating the same crap over and over and over forever. I haven't seen any learning theory that I could take into a classroom or training room and make effective use of, as a teacher or trainer. (Though I may have simply internalised all the major lessons and forgot where I learned them from?)

The stuff they teach on teacher training or 'train the trainer' stuff is next to useless. As far as I can see, these pedagogies work in the school or educational environment merely because it's so artificial - schools and colleges (and even universities) are literally places we've invented to be right in.

Designers learn about psychology too (teaching doesn't have a monopoly, it's something that all the knowledge work professions can benefit from). But nobody would say that psychology is at the heart of the design experience. It's a key element, nothing more.

Designers don't just 'guess' and test their way out. They use - well, actually, I'm not sure what they use. But it isn't psychology.

wow, you could not be more wrong about the role of...

2010-11-24T16:54:15.048Z

wow, you could not be more wrong about the role of psychology in teaching. If you want to be able to do more than guess and test (as you seem to promote) you must consider how people learn (learning theory, psychology, whatever).

So if you want to keep guessing and testing, be my guest, i'll be waiting at the finish line because there is a strong knowledge base on which to draw. If we make use of this knowledge base we'll make progress, if we ignore it (as you clearly want to do) we'll be doomed to repeating the same crap over and over and over and over.

PS: the repetition of crap is the cycle we are in right now. We aren't going to guess and test our way out of it.

Lars, thanks a lot.

2010-08-18T22:42:53.800+01:00

Lars, thanks a lot.

Yes, a great and admirable effort. You've weav...

2010-08-18T21:04:18.785+01:00

Yes, a great and admirable effort. You've weaved together a valuable resource here. Shows the importance of curation alongside creation of content.

Allison - a pleasure.

2010-08-18T20:27:16.909+01:00

Allison - a pleasure.

this is very helpful. I ran into a hospital that w...

2010-08-18T15:00:26.289+01:00

this is very helpful. I ran into a hospital that was asking parents to identify their children's learning styles upon check in. Imagine. Do they know the kid's style? Do we know what to do with that information if they get it right? Big IF.

thanks for pulling it together.

This piece, called Never Forget: Learning Styles Are Complete Arse, is a lot more thoughtful than it sounds and is definitely worth bookmarking.

This seems relevant, not entirely clear why: The <...

2010-06-29T14:54:58.235+01:00

This seems relevant, not entirely clear why:
The Fundamental Attribution Error
"In other words, when explaining someone else’s behavior, we assume they acted a certain way because of the type of person they are, not the circumstances they were in. But, when we dig a little further we see that most behavior is circumstantial…people do what they do because of the situation they’re in. "

This pretty much sums up what a lot of the Systems Thinker types say.

More, on LS. This time on visual vs verbal learner...

2010-05-26T19:54:05.642+01:00

More, on LS. This time on visual vs verbal learners. Interestingly, self-identified visual thinkers do tend to show different patterns of brain activity.

And this on The Writing Problems of Visual Thinkers is really interesting.

I suppose all of us get a bit squeamish about tran...

2010-05-23T09:50:54.389+01:00

I suppose all of us get a bit squeamish about translating things into hard numbers. We 'know' that the numbers aren't real.

But so does everybody else. We don't have a problem with money not being real; nobody is going to give me, the bearer, a real "pound" and I don't particularly mind. It's a consensual fiction that's useful to all of us.

Perhaps, we should all be more comfortable with 'notional' hard numbers? (As long as it doesn't lead to meaningless target-chasing? Which is perhaps inevitable... Oh noes, I can't even manage to talk about quantifying my enthusiasm in the comments on my own blog ;)

Oh, how this post resonates with me! I've been...

2010-05-21T14:37:36.295+01:00

Oh, how this post resonates with me! I've been in exactly the same position you talk about. Enthusiasm is very hard to translate into the hard numbers that senior managers like to see...

Ally, I'm collecting stuff here rather than ma...

2010-05-18T09:44:05.137+01:00

Ally, I'm collecting stuff here rather than making (too much of) a comment on whether Learning Styles are a good/bad thing. But, as usual, I do have a view, kind of.

I should say, I have taught Learning Styles on Training the Trainer courses. And there were demonstrable improvements in delegates' results. Mostly because, as you say, people tend to use them in a metaphorical way. It's like a checklist: am I communicating using all the channels available to me? Am I boring people by forcing them to listen to me lecturing? Learning Styles is great for that. So, does it matter? Not necessarily.

But.

I've also been assessed on my use of Learning Styles (in a 'teaching' environment rather than a training one). This is clearly wrong. There seems to be conflation between differentiation and Learning Styles in the adult education sector, in some instances.

There is also some confusion about what 'Learning Styles' actually means. Although Daniel Willingham seems to be talking about VAK, there are shedloads of other 'inventories' out there too. I think it's probably worthwhile being extremely skeptical about the proprietary models eg Honey and Mumford's stuff.

My main point is simple, though. Even if they were 'real', would it matter? I've never met anybody who's been able to give me any practical advice about how to put them to effective use. By 'effective' here, I mean the effort input is proportionate to results achieved.

See Will Thalheimer's comment here for the closest approximation to my own view.

There's also a really interesting idea of 'Teaching Styles' that's worth thinking about. For each topic, there may be an optimal way of teaching it, apparently. Approach with caution ;)

Martha, sorry for the delay in publishing your com...

2010-05-17T16:45:27.394+01:00

Martha, sorry for the delay in publishing your comments. They're both ruddy excellent and make good points.

First off: I love Samorost as a work of art. I adore it. And I've just 'played' a few of the Pastel games for as long as I can too. They're also very arty. But I don't have the patience to do the point-and-click-to-solve-the-puzzle business. So, I guess there's a bit of horses for courses here.

Second: I don't know how you managed it, but you totally anticipated my counter-argument. People often seem to perceive a qualitative difference in electronic music vs classical music because 'proper' musicians have managed to master an instrument ie an interface.

Third: you're broadly right about being forced to learn some fiddly controls. But you're totally wrong about those controls not being transferable to other games. Pretty much all the games use the same control set. If you've mastered on first-person/third-person game, you can pretty much play them all without any trouble. There's a steep learning curve for the first game which then plateaus. A fact I use to my advantage when playing my nephew at new games; he's always stunned when I beat him.

Four: I should have put this point first because it's the most important one. So important that I'll give it a whole paragraph.

In your work, you could argue that learning Excel would be the 'interface' or controls for your clients. And you could argue that this would get in the way of the learning about financial literacy. However, I'd (inevitably) argue that there is a phase-change-like leap in understanding your finances using an interface like a spreadsheet vs filling out a budget sheet. The rewards for learning how to use a spreadsheet are simply enormous and the effort pays off.

Lastly: all my arguments are rendered impotent by this admission - I can't be doing with Second Life because I don't feel comfortable moving my avatar around. Game, set and match to Ms Lawton. Your Urdu analogy is totally FTW.

PS Keep your eyes on project Natal from Microsoft for a Wii-killing Marthaphiliac quantum leap in interface design.

PPS Let's tawk some time?

More on Learning Styles as bunk.

2010-05-16T09:52:42.730+01:00

This comment has been removed by the author.

Oh and as if I hadn't said enough. A friend ...

2010-05-06T16:23:01.703+01:00

Oh and as if I hadn't said enough.

A friend once described his ability to be patient with learning game controls as being like learning a musical instrument. The satisfaction he got was in part from mastering this new set of movements and keystrokes.

To me though there is a vital difference. When you learn a musical instrument you can play whatever music you want with that instrument. You can also write new music with the same instrument. No matter how good I get at one game the chances are I'll have to learn a new set of controls for the next game. Learn to play a new instrument each time I want to listen to a new piece of music? No thanks! What's more, no matter how good I get at a certain set of moves I will never be able to write a whole new game with them.

I rest my case yeronna.

Hi Simon, great post with loads of follow up for m...

2010-05-05T12:42:44.815+01:00

Hi Simon, great post with loads of follow up for me to do :)

Like you I'm all up for challenging the 'accepted wisdom' especially when brain science is co-opted into supporting theory based on social observation.

I'll also confess to being a trainer who encourages others to present by engaging all the senses rather than just talking at them.

The last video was very insightful, especially his take on why 'learning styles' feel right. It is interesting that he posted a follow up (the short 2nd video) where he seems to say - It's a good thing to vary the way you engage your teach just be clear on why your methods are effective.

My point is - does it matter? The end result is that 'learning styles theory' stimulate teachers/trainers to improve their methods.

Perhaps we'd be better thinking of learning styles as a metaphor. So that we can explain the benefits of improved methods rather than co-opting brain science to justify our theories.

Via
2010-05-03T10:18:09.230+01:00
Via @cheekturner on Twitter, another round up on four of the most common Learning Styles inventories.

I think this is one reason why so many people LOVE...

2010-04-20T12:24:23.871+01:00

I think this is one reason why so many people LOVE the Wii. It's intuitive. It allows you to turn your hands when playing a driving game without feeling like a fool. (I have been known to fall over on my side when playing driving games with a traditional controller.) It allows you to pick up and PLAY.

I love games. Genuinely love them. But I cannot be doing with fiddly control pads and multiple buttons. If I can't start playing quickly you lose me. I will merrily spend hours on an escape point and click. I think the Submachine Games are a work of art (http://www.pastelgames.com/index,games,flash_games.html) ditto Samorost (http://www.amanita-design.net/samorost-1/).

I don't mind a puzzle but I don't like the arrogance of game designers assuming I should care enough about their work to take time to learn how to use their controls.

I'm the customer and I play to have fun, if you can't make your game fun from the moment I pick it up then tough, other people can.

In this normal games are different from learning. I learn in order to have the knowledge, which I then want to use. I'm prepared for difficulty even for work because the knowledge I will ultimately gain is important to me in some way.

Games are pass times. To be entertainment and sometimes to be art. Any learning I have to do before I start having fun is work and I do enough work at work thanks. Game designers can learn from Kurt Vonnegut in this, he described writing as "Use the time of a total stranger in such a way that he or she will not feel the time was wasted."

In a game my object is to play. To the solve the mystery or battle the monster or whatever. The challenge of that may be solving puzzles but it's not learning to use a bunch of buttons. The buttons to me are utterly disconnected from my object.

You can tell me I'm missing out and that there are wonderful games, things of great beauty that, once I master the basics of the controller, I would be thrilled to discover. You might as well tell me "Hi we have this fantastic book for you to read but it's in Urdu and we're not going to translate it. You can learn Urdu though and it comes with a dictionary."

My response will always be thanks but there are loads of good books in English. I'll wait for that translation.

I completely and utterly agree and totally know wh...

2010-04-16T18:21:27.130+01:00

I completely and utterly agree and totally know what you mean. But I'm going to be contrarian.

It wasn't always true that everybody loved movies. It was only with the explosion of genres and film's own self-referential Information Architecture that there came a time when everybody loved movies.

And, sure, I've know loads of people who hated sports but then discovered that, as they got older and richer, they could join rowing clubs or take up fencing. Again, it's a genre/niche thing. It's not that anybody hates sports but they haven't found their genre yet.

Nintendo's genius is not to focus on genre but on verbs because, you know, games are different:
Nintendos Genre Innovation Strategy - seriously, read this if you haven't; it's genius and was going to be my next post (and maybe still will be - Learning: it's in the frickin' verbs)

If I were to say I didn't like any movies it would be tantamount to saying I'm the Ultimate Solipsist who rules the universe.

If I were to say I didn't like any sports, it would be tantamount to saying, "I am extraordinarily lazy."

But, if I were to say I didn't like any games then I'd have two options. 1) It would be tantamount to saying, "I don't like life." Hardness is unavoidable and an integral part of life, despite our best efforts. 2) I'm waiting for them to gameify my favourite verb.

Number Twos exist at the moment (as you say, they probably exist as a vocal and not-insubstantial minority) but their number will shrink over time as people like Nintendo extend the vocabulary.

Having said all this, I don't know if Patrick Dunn chose the 'chasm' metaphor by accident or not. But Gamers and the 'chasm' is exactly the right choice of words. Anybody interested in pushing games-based learning needs to read Crossing the Chasm by Geoffrey Moore post-haste. Let me know if you haven't read it and I'll post a summary later (I have a draft ready).

Terrific post. Thanks for organizing my thought f...

2010-04-16T17:45:38.810+01:00

Terrific post. Thanks for organizing my thought for me on this topic :)

So are educational games movies or sports? By that, I mean: everybody likes movies (except for a tiny fringe that I am not going to worry about designing for). They may like different types of movies, but everybody has a movie of some kind that they like.

Or are they like sports, which a big section of the population loves, a decent number are indifferent to, and a not-insubstantial minority actively dislike.

Gamers (with a capital G) are such a self-selecting population that it's hard to tell what can be extrapolated from their experience to a broader population. I *think* games are more movies than sports, but not all the way (there's no learning curve to a movie), but I do think there's a varying degree of tolerance for the hard fun that makes gameplay so compelling.

I don't think we can logic this out, either. I think it's all about the user testing, fwiw.

I forgot to add in a reference to this paper from ...

2010-04-16T11:44:59.257+01:00

I forgot to add in a reference to this paper from 1994 which should be required reading for all UI/UX/eLearning people:

There are no intuitive interfaces, merely the familiar.

I think this is worth thinking about with games. My four-year-old is quite happy browsing the internet and playing games. The time of the dysludic will be over before you can say, usability testing and bounce rate reductions

Thanks, Dan. I started thinking about this after ...

2010-03-17T11:57:44.138Z

Thanks, Dan.

I started thinking about this after watching my son - who is four and can neither read nor write - on the web.

Basically, he's fine. And will happily spend an hour or so browsing on YouTube. The only time he ever gets stuck is when he accidentally clicks on one of the browser buttons - the web is pretty usable and you can make your way through trial and error alone.

My experience of eLearning has been roughly the same, unfortunately.

I'm not talking about eLearning above, though. A training workshop with little 'work' will do just as good a job at wasting a day...

Here's my little lads website:
http://arthurpendolino.tumblr.com/

I set it up and typed the strapline. The rest is all usability with trial & error (and luck).

Excellent. And excuse me if I'm wrong on this...

2010-03-17T08:17:14.510Z

Excellent.

And excuse me if I'm wrong on this, Robert, but isn't this argument impotent in the face of this post's proposition:

"As a book author I've sold over 300,000 copies. And millions have accessed my websites."

Sales and pageviews are irrelevant. It's the knowledge imparted as a result of this that is important.

Bunchberry & Fern

So what does it mean if I completely lost interest...

Hi Jerrid, thanks for the comment. I'm not sa...

wow, you could not be more wrong about the role of...

Lars, thanks a lot.

Yes, a great and admirable effort. You've weav...

Allison - a pleasure.

this is very helpful. I ran into a hospital that w...

This piece, called Never Forget: Learning Styles Are Complete Arse, is a lot more thoughtful than it sounds and is definitely worth bookmarking.

This seems relevant, not entirely clear why: The <...

More, on LS. This time on visual vs verbal learner...

I suppose all of us get a bit squeamish about tran...

Oh, how this post resonates with me! I've been...

Ally, I'm collecting stuff here rather than ma...

Martha, sorry for the delay in publishing your com...

More on Learning Styles as bunk.

Oh and as if I hadn't said enough. A friend ...

Hi Simon, great post with loads of follow up for m...

Via 2010-05-03T10:18:09.230+01:00 Via @cheekturner on Twitter, another round up on four of the most common Learning Styles inventories.

I think this is one reason why so many people LOVE...

I completely and utterly agree and totally know wh...

Terrific post. Thanks for organizing my thought f...

I forgot to add in a reference to this paper from ...

Thanks, Dan. I started thinking about this after ...

Excellent. And excuse me if I'm wrong on this...

Via
2010-05-03T10:18:09.230+01:00
Via @cheekturner on Twitter, another round up on four of the most common Learning Styles inventories.